Kings Vs King + Bishop + Kinght

Jump to forum:
 
15th August 2008, 05:47pm
#1
by Ilovegambits
Townsville Australia
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 842

This is another very tricky mate. Players aiming to reach 2000 should at least know this mate.

15th August 2008, 06:19pm
#2
by Nilesh
Media, Pennsylvania United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 401

yep. I need to practice.

15th August 2008, 06:37pm
#3
by cat_of_chess
Jeanerette, LA United States
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 229

go to    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2y_740gWo0     ☻☻☻

15th August 2008, 07:24pm
#4
by nimzovich
Angels Camp United States
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 374

I wanted to add to Ilovegambits' post on the not-at-all easy KBN vs K mate.

In "Fundamental Chess Endings" (FCE) by Muller and Lamprecht, the authors note that in a quality database of 1.7 million games that this ending occurred a mere 283 times (with 62 draws!). FCE provides an excellent pattern for achieving the mate outlined by Ilovegambits above.

By way of contrast, in IM Jeremy Silman' "Complete Endgame Course", the author "heretically" leaves out this ending, noting that he has played it only once in his career, while friends IM John Donaldson and IM John Watson have never played it, so it is considered impractical to learn.

Do I agree with this? Not entirely. I like the challenge, and believe it improves my concept of piece coordination. 

Am I familiar with it? Barely.

Do I study this endgame and practice it against software? Now and then when I feel masochistic.

Would I insist on my opponent demonstrating ability to mate with KBN in a game? Definitely.

Would I expect my opponent force me to similarly prove my knowledge? Absolutely, and I wouldn't blame them.

I appreciate I lovegambits' efforts in highlighting this ending for those who also like acquiring skills in this endgame.

15th August 2008, 08:14pm
#5
by shuttlechess92
California United States
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 887

wow thanks ilovesgambit I now have an actual strategy should this game even come up, which I sure hope it doesn't =)

15th August 2008, 11:28pm
#6
by Pegrin
Charlotte, NC United States
Member Since: Apr 2008
Member Points: 92

On move 14... Kb3, Black gets off the a file, and it takes some effort to push him back. Is there any way to keep him on the a file (or whatever edge being used)?

15th August 2008, 11:36pm
#7
by Ilovegambits
Townsville Australia
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 842

Sorry, to say that at move 14 when the king moves to b3, there is no move that can be used to prevent the king from moving there. By the way dont forget the objective of the opening is to stop black from getting to the white square in the corner.

15th August 2008, 11:52pm
#8
by ashwath
bangalore India
Member Since: Apr 2008
Member Points: 89

thank  u never knew this.

16th August 2008, 12:40am
#9
by Maradonna
Scotland
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 1194

Yeah, I read this in Ian Snape's  Basic chess endings, book. It took a bit of practice but once you've got the pattern in your head it is there for keeps. I notice thought that IM Jeremy Silman choose to leave this out of his endagame book - I was surprised by this.

16th August 2008, 10:46am
#10
by Jpatrick
New Jersey United States
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 32

This endgame is well worth learning because it develops skill in coordinating minor pieces. Now, I'm guessing that the example above was generated by running the starting position through Tablebase.  In that regard, the example doesn't necessarily show HOW to do it.  To know HOW to play this ending, you have to know which pieces are used to control which key squares and when. Once you understand those concepts, the endgame isn't difficult to play.

Just as soon as I can figure out how to edit and post diagrams, I'll post a couple demonstrative examples with annotations.

 

I played this example against Shredder at full strength. Thus you know that the defense is quite stubborn. The annotations explain why some moves are made by White. Hope this helps

16th August 2008, 10:58am
#11
by Smartattack
Portugal
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 684

This is very sharp ending, a single mistake and all can be  over cause of the 50 move rule

16th August 2008, 11:13am
#12
by likesforests
United States
Member Since: May 2007
Member Points: 3273

nimzovich> Muller and Lamprecht, the authors note that in a quality database of 1.7 million games that this ending occurred a mere 283 times (with 62 draws!).

In other words, 75% of "quality" players can win this ending. I've seen players steer games into unclear waters rather than end in a B+N ending where they doubted they could mate, and there's always the value of learning to coordinate your pieces better, so I agree with you that learning this ending has more value than statistics would imply. :)

16th August 2008, 12:32pm
#13
by Jpatrick
New Jersey United States
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 32

Here's another example that I played against Shredder.  White's pieces are disorganized at the beginning, so this one took 32 moves to get to mate. Pay particular attention to the timing of the Knight maneuvers and the key squares they are designed to control.

16th August 2008, 02:29pm
#14
by Jpatrick
New Jersey United States
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 32

And now one last example of me playing vs Shredder where the Black pieces are the strong side with a light squared Bishop. The final position here is different since the King is mated one step away from the corner.  At least one endgame book of mine made it sound like there was one and only one final position for this mate, but if you look at the examples here, there are at least three.

 

I got disoriented while playing this one and had to regroup, which is why it took 35 moves. I didn't try and clean up the score, because you don't have that chance on actual play. If you err, you have to regroup and get it right. This happens with endgame play even at the highest levels.

16th August 2008, 02:51pm
#15
by Kasparo
Pasig City Philippines
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 69

hard to mate. but still possible. we also have to make a lotta moves.

Great job! This i say, is a very good game :)

22nd October 2008, 05:54am
#16
by donngerard
Cebu Philippines
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 798

remarkable!

 

Add your comment:

Join Chess.com for free to add your comment! Already a member? Then login now to comment.